I'm still having a hard time time taking it in. Ken was one of the longest contributing members of the Lila Squad - the earliest post for Ken that I can find is mid November 1997, so he must have joined up around the beginning. He was certainly around when I joined in March '98 and it didn't take long before I was corresponding with him off list as well. I always liked Ken's approach to the MoQ even though I didn't always agree with everything he wrote but even our few disagreements were friendly and good-natured.

And now we won't have any more words from Ken.

I didn't meet Ken physically but I did consider him a friend - I hope he felt the same way.

I'll miss him.

Rest Peacefully Ken


Mary: I'm very sorry to hear about your Father, Ken, and appreciate your letting us know about his passing. He was indeed one of the earliest participants on this site and along with Bo and myself, the oldest. While we didn't always agree, I greatly admired his intellect, writing skill, and zest for life and living. To know that we will no longer have the benefit of his views and vivid personality is deeply saddening. My heartfelt condolences. Sorry I can't help you on your Pirsig autograph request.


Dear Mary,

You have my heartfelt condolences on your father's passing. Ken's wisdom, wit and humor will be missed by all of us who knew him. Ken was very enthusiastic about my project of putting the old Lila Squad archives into order and if you don't mind I would like to make a dedication to him there.

Rest in peace, old friend.


Hi Mary

> Hi Everyone,
> Some of you will remember me.

Of course I remember you. And of course I remember your father. He was the one to bring laughter to a (too) serious discussion. It was a laugh of self recognition, and made us back off for a minute to see the greater issues.

I will miss him.

Rest in peace Ken.



A cold shiver went through me reading your announcement, though I'm very glad you did share it with us.

I always liked Ken's down-to-earth approach of the MoQ. More than ones I have felt his posts as a breath of fresh air, or like landing on the ground after highfly philosophical discussion journeys.

We will miss him,



There is little more that I can add to the news of Ken's passing and subsequent tributes, other than my sorrow, but also my gratitude for having 'virtually' know Ken for over three years. It is good to know that some of his finest qualities - humour, intelligence, total integrity and an individualistic love of the whole universe - still live on in Mary.

That universe was richer for his presence and now we are all poorer for his passing. I too will miss Ken greatly.


Mary and fellow MOQers

I also wish to express my sadness at the passing of Ken. His was a mind that I enjoyed travelling the high country with.


Sydney Australia

Dear Mary,

Ken's death does not leave me untouched, and I feel that I speak for lots of other long-time ''lurkers'' who read and thought about his posts. Thank you for telling us,

Willem Beekhuizen


Like everyone else, I'm deeply saddened to hear your news. As far as I know Ken was the oldest member of our group, born in 1925, yet he embraced new philosophies and new technology with enthusiasm, and he was learning and thinking and challenging established ideas right till the end.

He was also one of the earliest members of the Lila Squad and his warmth and humour have helped build a feeling of community amongst our subscribers, both on and off the list. It won't be quite the same without him.


Mary and family,

Your neighbors in the West were anybody within a day's ride on a good horse. Though we only lived about that far apart, we met only in this new frontier. Even without the benefits of a kitchen table and pot of coffee after a long day's ride, I valued Ken's qualities as a neighbor with a clear mind, firm voice, and an understanding ear.

So long neighbor, you will be missed.

Dave Thomas

Mary: I am saddened to hear of Ken's death. I have enjoyed reading and responding to his posts. My sincere condolences to you. He will be missed.



I am sorry for your loss of your father. Ken was brilliant man with a wonderful take on the MoQ and philosophy in general. Although I never (as far as I can recall) conversed directly with him, I enjoyed reading his posts and his understanding of the MoQ has without a doubt contributed to mine (as well as everyone else in this group). His intellegence and wit will be missed by all.


Hullo Mary,

I was very sorry to hear of your Father's death. He has obviously made a great impact within the group and will be missed. Thanks for letting us know. I would like to say something more directly to you that does not sound like a platitude, but the words won't come.

John B


I'm relatively new at this group, and I never had the occasion to talk with your father. I want however say that I'm close as possible to your pain. I've read in your words the same sadness and the same sense of impotence I felt just one year ago.

When I lose my dad a terrible feeling of emptiness pervaded my life. It seems impossible to find the sense of all that.

I don't know if it helps:

"... before it could be asked ``Where did he go?'' it must be asked ``What is the `he' that is gone?'' There is an old cultural habit of thinking of people as primarily something material, as flesh and blood. As long as this idea held, there was no solution. The oxides of Chris's flesh and blood did, of course, go up the stack at the crematorium. But they weren't Chris. What had to be seen was that the Chris I missed so badly was not an object but a pattern, and that although the pattern included the flesh and blood of Chris, that was not all there was to it. The pattern was larger than Chris and myself, and related us in ways that neither of us understood completely and neither of us was in complete control of. Now Chris's body, which was a part of that larger pattern, was gone. But the larger pattern remained. "

These words from ZAMM's afterword helped me. My dad was a photographer. One year ago I was furnishing my new apartment. I chose some old black-white snapshots he took in the seventies and hanged them to the wall. There's a man playing a bagpipe in London, a fakir with a big flame rising from his mouth, an elderly man with his wife on the door of their home, a priest riding a bicycle in a countryside path....

Obviously it's not enough to fill that empty, but I like to think that I've lost the chance to talk with him, not the chance to listen to him.

Sincere condolences.


Dear Mary and family,

Ken was one of the landmarks of the Lila Squad / MoQ discussion groups. His contributions here (as recorded for posterity in the archives) stand as a monument. He had wise and original things to say that drew on his own unique life experiences. I liked the Ken I knew from this forum, but unfortunately never had the chance to meet him in any other way. I'll miss him.

Mary, I hope that you and your family will find solace in many high-quality memories of your father.

Jonathan Marder


My condolences upon hearing the news about Ken. Nobody could make me laugh on this forum more than Ken's wry replies to Fintan. And nobody could show more compassion for humanity and family than your dad. One of my last exchanges with him was about you, Mary.

********OLD POST**********

>>>I just think of how interesting and exciting it would be if the entire population of the Earth were aware of our situation with regard to the universe and we could all devote ourselves to compatibility with the Earth. Interesting. I agree that the universe and Earth are both moral places, of course that morality is universal morality and many times may not look too good to humanity. One of the arguments that I used to make was that universal morality and human morality are two different things.
They are still two different things.
Mary and I share many of the same ideas. We grew up together. She taught me most of what I know.

I have blundered around all over the place. Better quit. >>>


>>>Yea, my life has its share of blunders too. But that's why we won't

But I would not be surprised if nature throws us a few fast balls of her own. The advancement of Quality seems to correlate with not just an advance in complexity, but of organization as well. As long as you are right about two moralities then we will be competing and hurting each other (man and nature).  When we merge into a common morality (whatever the hell that means) things will make the next evolutionary leap forward to higher quality. I don't believe much in the "purpose of the universe" stuff, but if I notice one consistent pattern, it is an advance in organization, complexity and universal morality.

But again, there will be set-backs on the way.


PS -- If you ever doubt the increase in value....just think of Mary.>>>

***********END OLD POST**************

Mary, my father-in-law just died last night too, and my wife is in the other room with the lights out, staring at the night sky and thinking about the universe. I think Ken would approve, and even suggest I go join her.....

Let's all take a moment to look to the universal morality that Ken never waivered on......


Dear Mary,

Strength and happiness to You and Your family.

If You do not mind I will tell You a story I experienced in my childhood.

My parents and I lived in the countryside and beside our house was an apple tree. One sunny afternoon I was sitting under the tree with my back leaning against the stem.

I do not know if I fell asleep but suddenly I felt me beeing in or beeing the tree. I felt the sun falling on my leaves and the fluids going up and down from the leaves to the roots. It was the deepest insight and the most ecstatic experience I ever had.

The mystery of live is greater than the mystery of death.- (This is very close to a very well known quote from somebody else but it is what I wanted to say)

Andreas Deppner

Dear Mary,

Although I have never met your father nor you personally, the message, that your father has left us, touched me deeply.It resulted in a melancholic feeling, that brought back memories of my grandfather. I remember standing at his grave and hearing one of his former political comrades talking about his righteousness, his liberality and his humanity and things like that, which came to me much like hypocrisy in this very moment. The things he said were of exactly of that kind you 'have to say' in a situation like this and I don't blame that person for it. Nevertheless his speech gave me a slight feeling of a devaluation of my grandfathers personal characteristics. Since I got so deeply involved with Robert M. Pirsigs work, I believe, the best thing you could say in a moment like this, is 'He was a good man'.

I have very much appreciated your fathers thoughts, which spoke of warmth,fairness, tolerance and love to fair intellectual argument. One could have easily forgotten about his age, while reading his posts. I remember him answering my first post to Lilasquad in August '99 (today MF) in a most encouraging way, and unconciously estimated him being just a few years older than me. Reading his bio then, I was quite astonished to find out that he was born in 1925. From what I got to know about him from his biograpie and his posts,not at least his love to nature, I feel, beyond time and distance, to be kindred souls with Ken Clark.

We won't forget about him!



Johannes Volmert